Partner Susan Thompson speaks with technology industry experts to mark International Women's Day 2023

Do you think it’s still important to celebrate International Women’s Day in 2023 and, if so, what does it mean to you?

Christine:

Yes, absolutely.  It’s unfortunate that it is needed, but important that people are reminded of women’s contribution in industry and across the world as a whole.  I say that as there is no gender equity or parity in any way across the world.  For me personally, International Women’s Day is a reminder that says to me “what have we been doing” both within work and outside of a professional setting, which includes recognising, helping, and elevating women in all aspects.  Obviously, there are events like Mother’s Day but not every woman is a mother.  It’s a celebration of women as a whole.

Sonya:

You know, we are all so busy in our day jobs that I really believe we need global events such as International Women’s Day to ensure we take time out, pause and throw a lens over the place that women now occupy in our society and our economy.  For me, International Women’s Day is both a celebration of how much women have achieved in taking their place in the commercial world, creating opportunities for the next generation, as well as examining the gaps that still exist.  Today more than ever, we need to have a broad conversation across society about how we bridge those gaps, who are the key players needed to effect change and ensure we maintain a focus on this important issue.  It’s also crucial that it’s a joint conversation with the men in our society and our workplaces.  The continued path towards equality of opportunity means having an open and honest dialogue about how we provide pathways for both genders to access opportunities in our careers and our personal lives. There is still much work to be done in this area.

What barriers, if any, have you faced in your career due to being a woman and, if so, how did you overcome them?

Christine:

I have an interesting background.  Whilst my career has predominantly been in the music industry, I have an MBA in marketing and a master’s in data science which essentially means I can code.  I have been in scenarios where I would say I can code, and people would look at me surprised or shocked.  I’d ask myself “where is that coming from?  Is it because I’m a woman?  Is it because I’m a black woman because I’m an immigrant (being a first-generation Nigerian/American).”  It still shocks me though that people have assumed that people who look like me can’t code, despite the fact that lots of people have coding skills.  I grew up in the States but have spent the last 5½ years in Europe so that adds an intersectionality.  

Certainly, when I think of my career as a whole, I do wonder how much further in my career I would have gone if I was a white male.  It’s only in the last two years, for example, that I finally have a black, female boss as there is so little representation at senior levels of women and especially women of colour in the music industry.  The issue with lack of representation is that it is hard for you and others to see yourself in a particular role.

When it comes to overcoming these issues, for one thing I do not stay where I am not welcome.  So, in scenarios where I have been made to feel uncomfortable, I will either vacate the situation or I will speak up in a professional context.  This is one of the reasons why I became a UK Director of shesaid.so – which is a community for women and gender minorities in the music industry.  The entire purpose of that organisation is to help represent, elevate, and upskill those underrepresented in the industry.  I also mentor and speak up about these issues including running an annual conference called “Measure of Music” and I ensure that at these events I’m actively promoting women and minority groups.

Sonya:

I started working in the City in the late ‘90’s.  Although it was a very male dominated world, in the early days of my career I never felt that being a woman held me back.  I did have to adapt my behaviours in order to fit into the ‘boys’ club’ – though I never went so far as to take up golf … that was a step too far!  As I rose through the ranks, I increasingly found myself being the only female voice around the board table.  I had to work hard to assert myself and be heard – always with a note of humour so as not to come across as being confrontational.  There have been a few occasions when I walked into a room of male peers, only to be asked to get the coffee or hang up coats by men who assumed I must be the secretary.  I would just laugh it off, though in reality my heart would sink with embarrassment.  It was when I had children that I really felt how unequal the working world was back then.  I always worked full-time and trying to balance those late-night meetings with childcare was an endless source of stress in my life.  Many women make a choice at that point to take a step back, but I decided to pay for the additional childcare and keep my career going.  I was glad I chose that path, as it ultimately gave me many more options for me and for my family, later in life.  The move to hybrid working post-Covid has really been a gift to people with young children, allowing them to be in two places at once.

What do you see as the key challenges that women face working in tech and/or the music industry?

Christine:

I think lack of representation is a big issue which is very chicken and egg as the less representation there is, the less will come.  In addition, there is a culture generally across the music and the tech industry of expecting additional unpaid work, out of office hours.  This impacts women disproportionately who are often the primary child carer or carer for parents, and these additional hours or last-minute meetings are very difficult for not only women but all working parents.  This expectation of additional hours to get ahead in your career can really set women back.  My view though is that these expectations should be challenged by everyone.  I remember reading the book “Lean In” by Sheryl Sandberg (ex-Facebook) who said that businesses should encourage flexibility for working mothers.  I recall there was a quote from somebody who was interviewed for the book who said, “it’s great that businesses will be flexible for those with children, but I’m never going to be able to have children because I never get to leave this office.”  That really resonated with me.  It’s not that I want ‘different’ just for women, I want things to be different and better for everyone.

I’ve noticed too in the music industry, for example, the return to office policy has been quite strictly enforced.  Yet we have spent 2½ years in an almost virtual environment.  So we know it can be done, i.e. the company is not falling apart at all.  Presenteeism can put a real stress on people’s lives that isn’t necessary.

Sonya:

Solving the lack of representation of women in the tech ecosystem is a problem of Rubik’s Cube dimensions.  It requires a comprehensive approach to solving the issues of gender representation in what is probably the most important sector for all our futures.  From an early age, girls are still being taught in a way that directs them away from STEM (Science Technology Engineering and Mathematics) subjects, so that only a very small proportion of female talent choose to study in these fields.  I work with tech entrepreneurs who are building the fastest growing companies in Europe.  In order to feed this growth, they require multiple equity investments from leading Venture Capital funds.  In the most recent market survey by Atomico (the “State of European Tech 22” report), the questions around diversity reveal the scope of the challenge faced by women working in tech.  Depressingly, the report shows virtually zero progress for women leaders in the past 5 years, with 87% of all Venture Capital funding still going to all-male entrepreneur teams, while the proportion captured by women-only founders has fallen from 3% to just 1%!  Even when women founders do successfully raise equity from VCs, they usually receive smaller equity investments than male counterparts, which results in lower growth levels for their companies.  When you consider that the tech world has seen record levels of funding in the past two years, this is just not good enough.  Another aspect of why this lopsided economy is persisting is because most of the VC partners who hold the chequebook are also men.  This really matters because these tech companies are designing solutions for all of society.  They are shaping how we shop, how we manage our finances, our education and healthcare, to name just a few key areas.

Do you think these challenges are being tackled and what, if anything, do you think should and can be done to ease those challenges?

Christine:

In 2023, I do not believe that lack of awareness is the issue in hand.  Quite often, I think the issue is big companies move slowly, especially in the music industry since it’s not as progressive as it might seem.  Bigger and older companies will often do things a certain way because that’s the way they’ve always worked.  I think the important thing is for companies to recognise there are different ways of doing things that will encourage employees.

An example of this might be often when companies send a spokesperson to speak at conferences or events, it is often very senior executives who do this and they are, by and large, white and male.  So, if they don’t promote women into certain levels, then women do not get the opportunity to speak and get the visibility that they need both internally and externally in order to advance their careers.  It seems to me if a company has a policy of only sending e.g. SVPs, then they can change the policy and send fewer senior employees.  There are a lot of different ways of approaching things that are just about, for example, promoting more women into senior roles.  There’s definitely a feeling sometimes that companies take a view that it’s too hard to change so nothing actually gets changed.

Sonya:

There are some bright spots that bode well for the future.  In recent years, I’ve seen many VCs routinely put clauses around diversity into the equity term sheets they put forward to entrepreneurs, requiring a focus on improving diversity.  Some VCs are also putting their money where their mouth is, such as Local Globe, which has set up a VC Investment training course with the London Business School.  The Newton Programme is training the next generation of VC investors, with a specific mission to bring diverse talent into the sector.  We also have some great role models coming through in the tech world.  High profile founders such as Anne Boden who founded Starling Bank, the trio of Poppy Gustafsson, Emily Orton and Nicole Eagan who founded cybersecurity firm Darktrace and Corinne Vigreux who co-founded TomTom are all great role models for any women considering starting a tech firm.  Our newly appointed Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology is a woman.  I’ve no doubt Michelle Donelan has a good understanding of the challenges facing women in technology, so here’s hoping she can make a positive contribution to levelling the playing field.

What advice would you give women struggling in a male dominated industry?

Christine:

Find your people, find your community.  Find people who will be there for you and support you.  An example of this is about 2 years ago being part of a cohort of about 40 in the Power Up initiative which was a PRS initiative to promote black executives in the music industry (which was amazing for me).  Another initiative that PRS is currently working on is Keychange which is aimed to elevate women and gender minorities who are mid-career to help get them promoted into more senior roles in their career.  Both are incredible initiatives that help you to find people like you: people that share your values and experiences.  It is very rare, particularly in the music industry, to have 40 people rooting for you and who want you to succeed.  So if you can find the people that you really like and enjoy and keep them around you, that’s really important as it can make things a lot better for you.  It means too that when you are in a position of hiring or promoting, you can use your network and ensure you are surrounded by people who share your values and want to see and effect change in the industry.

Sonya:

I was quite lucky to learn a valuable life lesson very early in my career – “those who ask, get”.  When I was still a graduate trainee, the organisation I was working in announced that they were looking for senior managers to move to London to start a new business.  I’d always intended to move to London, so thought I had nothing to lose by reaching out to the senior executive responsible for the strategy and ask for an interview to join the team.  He was surprised and delighted at my enthusiasm and very quickly agreed to take me off the grad scheme and transfer me to a new role in the City.  If I hadn’t put my hand up and asked, I would have been waiting 3-5 years for the experience I gained in that move.  So my primary piece of advice is to be brave and put your hand up, ask for the job or project before you are qualified for it.  There’s no downside to asking.  Your enthusiasm will most likely be rewarded and even if you aren’t immediately successful, you will have put a flag up to tell senior stakeholders that you are ambitious, and they will look for other opportunities for you to get ahead.

What advice would you give your 20-year-old self?

Christine:

I try to ensure I don’t have regrets but there is one thing I wish I had done earlier.  I wish I had left my hometown earlier.  You need to scare yourself sometimes, be prepared to take the big chances, be prepared to step outside of your comfort zone.  You need to do things that make you uncomfortable.

Sonya:

Well, I was always brought up to educate myself about the topic of conversation and to have an opinion to share.  While I think that’s still a valid approach to gaining knowledge and influence, I would certainly advise my younger self to learn the power of pausing and listening to others before diving in with my opinion.  I’ve become much more adept at reading a room and knowing how to influence a debate, by taking my time to hear all views before I dive in with a solution.  I’m a very action-oriented person and those types of personalities can be tempted to jump into solutions far too early in a conversation.  These days, I like to think I take a little more time to hear diverse points of views that I can consider before launching into a solution.

Who has inspired you most in your career?

Christine:

I really struggle with this question, not because I haven’t been inspired by people, as I’ve been influenced by a lot of people in my career.  Although, some might think it a cliché I would say my mother.  She was a working mother and she did it all.  I was always impressed by her ability to do that.  Outside of that, I take inspiration from people who get things done.  Lots of people want a lot of conversations about getting things done but I am inspired by the people who get things done rather than just talking about it.  

Sonya:

There is no one person that has been a shining light that I have followed, but I do tend to gravitate towards certain types of leaders.  Those who are the calm in a storm, who are subject matter experts in their field and who lead with empathy catch my attention.  I think of world leaders such as Nelson Mandela, Mary Robinson, Barak Obama and Christine Lagarde.  They are all impressive leaders who lead with a combination of logic and the heart, a nod to both sides of the human brain, which therefore makes them relatable to a broad church of people.  They also have the gift of charismatic delivery that allows them to hold the attention of a room and inject humour into their delivery.  Having fun is such an important part of being successful in any role.

What commitment to helping women can you make?

Christine:

I have mentioned these before, but I have been the UK Director of shesaid.so which is a community of women and gender minorities within the music industry.  There are so many other great initiatives in the UK too like Women in Control, or F List which is a database of women artists and producers so you can go and look for them.  When people say they couldn’t find a female for a particular job, that’s not possible if there’s a whole website of them, you just look them up.  There are other similar type organisations in the US so I would definitely encourage people to join these, reach out to these companies because they know what they are doing.

Sonya:

I’m involved in the Newton Venture Programme that I mentioned above, providing some of the course content on Venture Funding and encouraging more women into the world of Venture Capital.  In my day job I run the Venture & Growth business within Silicon Valley Bank in Europe.  I have always sought to have a diverse pool of candidates for all roles and I’m very proud that our high-performing team is made up 50/50 of women and men.  It has created a virtuous circle for recruitment and retention, as both men and women see it as a vibrant, happy team that they want to join.  Our clients also love having such strong female representation, I’d say it really makes us stand out from the competition.  I have also set up a career-coaching group in our business for mid-tier women, to help them navigate their career paths into senior roles.  My role involves a lot of public speaking at conferences and events.  For many years now I have adopted the policy of not speaking on panels if they are not diverse in order to positively influence the ecosystem.  Rather than just refusing to speak, I always try to help the organisers source talented female panellists.  They’re always delighted with that approach and invariably it makes for a much more lively and interesting panel discussion.  I remain very optimistic that we will radically change the gender landscape in tech in the next decade.  Although there is clearly a mountain to climb, I’m increasingly seeing women in technology coming together to support each other to change the dynamic.

What do you consider to be your biggest achievement, personal or professional?

Christine:

My goodness, what a lofty question!  For me, whilst I appreciate there are people that do it all the time, it was moving abroad.  I did it five and half years ago.  I moved to Stockholm where I lived for 2 years and then I moved to the UK.  Doing that is not easy for so many reasons.  There are geopolitical reasons.  It is not easy from an emotional standpoint; it is not easy being away from your family and friends; there is so much that makes it really challenging.  I’ve been able to do it and especially since I’ve moved to the UK, I’ve really been able to thrive.  I didn’t move abroad until I was 27, so building a brand new network abroad when you’re a bit older and not fresh out of college or school is not the easiest thing to do.

Sonya:

For all my talk about taking time to sit back and reflect, I’m very forward facing, always looking for the next milestone.  If I had to pick one achievement, I would say it’s the gender diversity of the team I’ve built at Silicon Valley Bank.  They represent the biggest venture debt team in Europe and to have a 50/50 gender split in this male-dominated tech world makes me very proud.  I smile every time I see my team walk into a room full of tech investors and entrepreneurs, as they show up as the market leaders in their field and they set the right tone.

If you could have dinner with three inspirational women (dead or alive) who would they be and why?

Christine:

One would be Michelle Obama.  I met her in Stockholm as part of her book tour.  It was a meet and greet opportunity yet despite only speaking with her for a few minutes, she made me feel so special.  She caught my accent and talked about what a privilege it is for black women travelling in the world and yet how rare it still is.  I would love to spend all day with her, but a dinner would be amazing.

Two - I’d like to add Rhianna.  She has managed to create a whole brand.  Obviously she does her music but she also has a fashion brand and her clothing brand is focussed on inclusivity, which I find incredible.  Looking like Rhianna, it would be very easy for her to make high fashion inaccessible to the vast majority of women but that’s not what she offered to do.  Every year she does her own fashion show which is in direct opposition to the Victoria’s Secret fashion show.  She has a huge range of different types of people, tall, small, brown, black, such a reflective, gorgeous event that she puts on.  I’m always in awe of it and I’m always very excited when it comes on every year because she comes up with the ideas herself.  It’s amazing because Rhianna and I are age-wise within a year of each other and I’m in awe of what she achieves.  For me, there’s just not enough hours in the day yet she does it all.

Hmmm, third person.  This is a bit of a wildcard but Dolly Parton.  She just seems like a really cool person.  Whilst it’s difficult to call Dolly Parton low-key, she does so much incredible stuff just because it’s the right thing to do and very few people do that.  More often than not, others do it because they want to be seen to be doing it.  That is amazing for me.  I’m from the States and when you think of the southern states you often associate them as not being progressive and liberal.  Yet you look at Dolly Parton with her accent and background, doing what she does, giving back to people because it’s the right thing to do without regard for race or LBQT+ issues.  So I would love to hear about all of that.  She’s been in the industry for so long, so I’d love to sit and listen to her talk about all of that.

Sonya:

Christine Lagarde, Ursula von der Leyen and Dame Anita Roddick.  The first two are two of the most powerful leaders influencing the Western World.  They have both made it to the pinnacle of their worlds, whilst juggling family.  They have proven themselves experts at the art of persuasion in male-dominated worlds and are still quick to smile.  Where they get the energy, I just don’t know!  Dame Anita was the founder of one of the biggest brands on the high street (The Body Shop) at a time when there were few, if any, female CEOs.  I love that her business was founded with a strong code of ethics at its heart.  She understood her market and persevered when many around her told her it would fail.  I bet all three have some interesting stories to share over a nice glass of vino.

What three tracks from your all-female playlist would be top?

Christine:

Hopefully this counts because it’s not an all-female band but the lead singer is female.  Paramore – lead singer being Hayley Williams.  She is a real powerhouse.  My favourite track is “Ain’t It Fun”.  It’s a great song.

Next is Lizzo’s “Good As Hell” because there’s a line in that song “boss up and change your life” and I think about that line often.  Any time when I’m in a situation where I think, “hmm…something’s not working”, I think of that line.  I joke sometimes that when I thought of that line, I managed a £10,000 rise on my salary negotiations.  It always makes me feel so motivated.  Get out there and just do it.

My next song would be “Savage” by Meghan Thee Stallion and the remix featuring Beyonce.  One of the reasons I love this song is because Beyonce and Meghan are generations apart.  Beyonce is like myself, a millennial, yet Meghan is Gen Z.  They’re both from Houston, Texas and they did this track together and ended up winning a GRAMMY.  It’s such a fun song and, to me, emphasises female friendship while showing how important female role models can be because Meghan probably wouldn’t be doing what she’s doing now if Beyonce had not done it first.

Sonya:

Unstoppable by Sia, Linger by The Cranberries and absolutely anything by Rihanna (sorry I just can’t choose one!).

What are you looking forward to most in 2023?

Christine:

I started a new job recently, about 6 months ago, which is great.  I’m working for a ticketing and marketing company called Shoobs.  I’m really enjoying it so I’m really looking forward to growing the company.  I have a focus of business expansion and want to get the company exposed more to different people, bringing it into new territories.  It’s a really incredible company.  It’s been at the forefront of black British culture for a long time and I’m really looking forward to helping it spread its wings.

Sonya:

On the work front, 2023 has started in a tough environment.  I’m very optimistic that the second half of the year is going to see the resurgence of the equity markets, hopefully making way for a slew of female-led tech companies taking the world by storm.  Keep an eye out for companies such as Daye, Unmind, Darktrace, Beautystack, Featurespace and Fluidly to name a few.  Personally, I’ll be celebrating a milestone birthday this year, so I’m looking forward to raising a glass and taking to the dance floor with my friends!